Talk:Vulcan history
Time of Awakening I've removed the following from the article as I think this information should be kept at Time of Awakening. Around 370 AD, the ancient philosopher Surak, revered as the father of Vulcan civilization, led his people in a great reformation to reject their emotions in favor of a philosophy that embraced pure logic. He demonstrated enormous courage working for peace in the face of war. (TOS: "The Savage Curtain") ''One group did not accept Surak's teachings and so a group of dissidents, the future Romulans, split off from the Vulcans at this time. (TNG: "Gambit, Part II", "2000 years ago") ''A Hundred Year War between Surak's followers and the (as yet unnamed) Romulan factions begins on Vulcan, presumably leading to the Romulans' mass departure. It was unknown at the time, but Q will later claim that one of the "self-destructive stunts" of a Philosopher Q, also known as Quinn, is what created the misunderstanding that ignited the Hundred Year War. (VOY: "Death Wish") ''It is believed that at one point 90% of Vulcan was at war. Terrible weapons such as the Stone of Gol were created. The Stone of Gol, a psionic resonator, is believed to have been destroyed by the gods on Vulcan during the Awakening. It was actually disassembled and its parts scattered. (TNG: "Gambit, Part II") ''Vulcan would recover from the wars and develop interstellar travel by the 19th century. (ENT: "Awakening") I've kept it here in case anyone wants some of it for a merge. Tyrant 13:05, 29 May 2005 (UTC)Tyrant According to my calculations from "The Savage Curtain" The Time of the Awakening happened somewhere between 1250ce to1950ce. --TOSrules 00:08, Dec 1, 2004 (CET) :Enterprise's Vulcan Reformation arc dated the Time of Awakening to the 4th century. -- Josiah Rowe 07:41, 1 Jan 2005 (CET) ::I get my figure from an on screen source. Kirk says in "The Savage Curtain": "We've each learned to be pleased with ourselves. The Vulcan Learned that Centuries before us." my numbers are based off assuming Kirk is talking about a United Earth, which is dated to 2150. Kirk saying Centuries is vague, it could be anywhere between 200 to 900 years before the event Kirk was referring to. --TOSrules 10:08, Jan 1, 2005 (CET) :::"Centuries is vague" - it could mean 18 centuries as well... -- Cid Highwind 12:46, 2005 Jan 1 (CET) ::::Yes, i wouldn't think that that was noteworthy or concrete enough to confirm a "calculation" based on it, in any sense of the word as i know it. Good thing the ENT arc clarified the date, or we would be unsure. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 15:54, 1 Jan 2005 (CET) Something else to digest or include comes from "All Our Yesterdays", which has the following context: "I am a Vulcan." "The Vulcan you knew won't exist for another 5,000 years." "Think, man. What's happening on your planet right now at this very moment?" "My ancestors are barbarians, warlike barbarians. Who nearly killed themselves off with their own passions." "Spock, you're reverting into your ancestors 5,000 years before you were born!" :Additionally, the Vulcan holiday of Rumarie hasn't occurred since, roughly, the 13th Century. The very nature of the event sounds pre-Surak. --Gvsualan 20:22, 1 Jan 2005 (CET) Ancient History I'm not happy with this section. It seems to be full of speculation, so I've removed it for now: "What was found is that Vulcans are a colony of an ancient world which 6 million years ago begun colonizing the galaxy. Somehow Vulcan was cut off and forced to fend on their own on this arid planet. Because the conditions of the original home world was at least better, it is possible the settlers crashed here. This ancient race when encountered showed extraordinary mental abilities. It is likely the "Vulcan Mysticism" and powers come from this ancient culture." Alex Peckover 03:10, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT) :We know Sargon was better weather wise because Sargon and Thelassa describe a summer similar to Earth. The Mysticism is also a logical conclusion. Also I am removing the addition of an error with "The Chase" because there is no error. Vulcan was never said to be a seeded world, and this race is much more ancient then Sargon. All it means is Sargon would have been the seeded world. I think the rest should be put back into the article. --TOSrules 03:44, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::To be fair, none of the major races were specifically named in "The Chase", but it was heavily implied that Humans, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians shared a common heritage. If the Romulans had genetic links to the Humanoids then so must the Vulcans. Alex Peckover 05:50, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::: And as the Romulan link is not on Romulus, The Vulcan Link is not on Vulcan. There is no problem with the link going back to Sargon. If "the Chase" belongs on Vulcan, then you should put it on Romulan History. --TOSrules 17:21, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT) :What do other members think of this? Does a "The Chase" Reference belong in the Vulcan history? --TOSrules 16:57, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::::The Romulans are descended from Vulcans at a point in history after the Romulans became "seeded" by "The Chase" aliens -- so I think it is fair to consider them involved, as there is a high degree of certainty that Vulcans (or at least some pre-Romulan-era Vulcanoids) were involved in being seeded. ::::The only way this could be disproven is if it was revealed that the Vulcans were not seeded, but the Romulans were somehow -- this would mean that the Romulans have other strains of DNA added to their genome after they left Vulcan. ::::This seems unlikely -- but even if the Romulans were seeded through another DNA strain added to their species' genome, through the Debrune or Remans, I still think this would deserve a note in the Vulcan frame of reference because the diaspora of the Romulan settlers to their new home on Romulus is very much a part of Vulcan history -- whether the seeding occurred on Vulcan, to the Vulcans, or off-Vulcan, by mixing Vulcan blood with the seeded species (before the Vulcans involved ''became Romulans'') ::::I also don't think there's any correlation between this an Sargon's comments -- there's no contradiction if Sargon's people were seeded by "The Chase" aliens, or even if they weren't and simply were part of the Vulcanoid genome through the mentioned colonisation. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 20:01, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :::::I think you missed the point, Sargon's world was seeded by "The Chase", they colonize Vulcan, who colonizes Romulus. Because Vulcan is not the seeded world there is no point in bringing it up in Vulcan History. It should only be in Sargon History. --TOSrules 21:35, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::::You've missed the point -- I think the information is relevant to the history of Arret (the name of Sargon's planet), Vulcan history, and Romulan history -- it should be included, in some form and differing levels of details in all three articles. I've already explained my reasoning of how it is relevant to Vulcan history (and it is not revealed whether Vulcan was actually seeded or not -- i think its just as possible Vulcan was seeded, and Arret and Romulus not -- so its relevant to all three histories). -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 22:07, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :::::Alright, I understand that. I am wondering how you connect the name Arret with Sargon's planet? --TOSrules 22:40, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :::::: From the Star Trek Concordance. --Alan del Beccio 06:18, 30 Jul 2005 (UTC) According to Distant past the Vulcans began suppressing their emotions c. 2600 B. C. If this was the case, could Surak have simply revived the practice of Kohlinar instead of inventing it?--Robert Treat 08:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC) P'Jem The Vulcan monastery on P'Jem is built circa 850 BC ), which implies that they were a spacefaring specie at least in the 9th century BC (sublight or less). Is there any information about their spatial evolution. - Philoust123 14:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC) Removed I removed: :Some fans have speculated that the Earth-Romulan War was sparked by yet another attempt by the Romulans to invade Vulcan, though there is no canon evidence of this. However, the name seems to imply the conflict was more focused on the relations between Romulus and Earth than Vulcan. Some fans are not all fans, nor is it at all encyclopedic. --Alan 01:31, 1 March 2008 (UTC) :I removed 2 speculative statements, the first of which claimed, "stating that Vulcans evolved on Vulcan, in , T'Pol probably just cited the scientific theory of her time." The second speculation commented, "The extraordinary mental powers of Sargon's people may be the origins of Vulcan telepathy, as well as other aspects of Vulcan mysticism and mythology." Because we don't list unknowns, I also removed the following remark: "It remains unknown to what extent the term 'proto-Vulcan' for the Mintakans reflects back on early Vulcans." --Defiant (talk) 18:21, June 8, 2017 (UTC) :I've removed the following speculative comment, "Admiral Dougherty's remark in that 'warp drive turned a bunch of Romulan thugs into an empire' indicates that the Romulans achieved warp capability after they had left Vulcan. This, in turn, might suggest that the Vulcans became warp capable sometime after the Time of Awakening of the 4th century AD." Personally, I've always interpreted Dougherty's remark as suggesting that warp drive allowed the Romulans to leave their Vulcan brethren, not that the Romulans discovered it thereafter, but whichever way it happened, this statement (mistakenly formatted as bginfo!) is completely speculative. I've also removed yet another speculation: that the "hundred year war" mentioned by Q in "Death Wish" was possibly "intended as a reference to the atomic war following the Time of Awakening." --Defiant (talk) 18:36, June 8, 2017 (UTC) 23rd century why write in 23rd cent, evenements seen in ST2009, and not in an "alternate timelines" section like for "romulan history" ??? C-IMZADI-4 21:41, December 7, 2009 (UTC) :Probably because there is only one event listed so it doesn't really *need* an alternate timeline heading, it is formatted improperly. — Morder (talk) 21:48, December 7, 2009 (UTC) Ok C-IMZADI-4 22:00, December 7, 2009 (UTC)